Hi All,

Just wanted to share this thought with everyone.

Just a few years ago I always felt that arrangers were somewhat looked down upon. When talking to other musicians and they asked what kit I had, when I replied that I had a Technics KN or a Roland Arranger they seemed to sort of cringe. I got many comments about these instruments being "home keyboards" or pleasure instruments for the amateur. You never used to see any self respecting Pro play one of these things in a band and as for using them in a studio - that was a sin.

But it seems that in the past few years arrangers have made a huge leap into the "Pro" arena. They almost seem to be an extension (or alternative) to the workstation. They seem to have raised their credibility and profile to the point where it's now considered to be cool to own an arranger. By the looks of it they're starting to appear in studios and bands and now considered a true musicians tool to be used along side (or instead of) a Synth or workstation.

I think the manufacturers have done a marvelous job of rebranding these instruments and bridging the divide between the pro kit and home kit. It's great to see that arrangers now have the credit they deserve and that they are now considered as true pro pieces of kit.

Not sure if everyone would agree but I just wanted to share this thought with you all anyway.

David.

Hi David:

Glad to hear that musicians are beginning to understand what a great instrument and song enhancement device that Arranger Keyboards really are.

I am a songwriter and still encounter resistance from Publishers and other Music Industry professionals when discussing how my CD's are created. It takes time for busy people to get exposed to new technology but it sure is irritating when someone refers to a keyboard (not just an arranger) as "cheezy".

Thanks for your post.

RICE (The Lone Arranger)

I have to agree. Here on the East Coast, experienced players and fellow musicians have nothing but respect for arrangers and arranger players who can master their boards. They see the amount of work we get and the amount of money we make.

That's because arrangers actually have some versatility now. Several intros endings fills, and many bars per loop instead of 1 or 2 intros and endings and 2 bar loops. Arrangers are stepping up their game, and the quality of sound is getting better so it doesn't sound totally awful when a keyboard tries to emulate a guitar or sax. If the perception towards arrangers have changed, it's because the arrangers have changed, not the musicians. I might own a tyros 2, spent some time thinking about maybe owning an original tyros, but nothing before that would have worked for me; not in a pro sense anyway. Granted I'm not an arranger officinato but I have heard the sound of a lot of them and thought they were fun but not pro. This is changing.

I don't want them to be accepted. I love it when the "pros" come in and sit in the audience and watch me work with my arranger.
O.K. my tongue is in my cheek, sort of.
DonM

hmmm... I haven't seen that.

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Bill
Yamaha PSR2000

All they would have to do is call them Workstations instead of Arrangers.
DonM

Neither have I. Unless you have created your own STYLE for a song, the music that comes out of that box was still originally played by someone else. Musicians are never going to accept that as legit. Stringing together a bunch of loops to make a Rap record might sell a lot of records but....... and when you get right down to it, what's the difference? What is MUSIC and what an audience will ACCEPT as music are two different things. Arrangers emerged from "home" instruments designed specifically to help non-musicians make music for home entertainment. It was designed from the ground up as an "instant gratification" device. What we see today is that instrument taken to the extreme....because "they" have the technology to build it and "we" have the money to buy it. Is the modern, top-end Arranger a boon to OMB's? Of course. Are they "finally" being accepted by musicians as Pro instruments? GET REAL.

chas


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It really depends on how an arranger is used by the user.

If you are playing one fingered chords, and strickly useing the styles out of the box (styles that sound like songs made already), no tweeking, then there is an up hill battle for the acceptance of arrangers with in the electronic musician circles. Not that I personally think there is any thing wrong with using an arranger that way as long as it works for you, makes you happy and you are able to get jobs doing what you do and useing what you use (I feel the same way about using MP3s waves and midis).

However, if you create your own styles and make your performance sound different from a CD, then people get the impression that you have done or are doing most of the work.

After all when the use of a drum machine and a keyboard was used a lot in the 90s, for some reason that has had greater acceptance than just using an arranger out of the box.

But I think if people hear a song being played from an arranger and sounds different that seems to have more acceptance with other musicians.

Well this has been the case because there have been times when other musicians have come up after a performance and was wondering how does the set-up work given that they only see one keyboard.


When they are told that the styles were created by the player and you control the movement of the chords with the left (and sometimes right) hand by pressing full chords, they seem to appreciate the work and preparation done by the arranger user involved for a performance.

Used strictly as an ARRANGER (it's primary function), an Arranger keyboard is basically a very sophisticated loop playback machine and as such, is more akin to a cd player than an actual musical instrument. I'm not an Arranger basher as I own two (along with 14 other KB's and sound modules), but to say that even high-end Arrangers are gaining legitimacy in the PRO world is like saying that a Logitec Z5500 is suitable for commercial sound reinforcement applications. Top-end Arrangers are barrels of fun and have several legitimate applications such as studio scratch pad, OMB's, and can be a source for creative stimulation. But as far as being accepted by professional musicians, I don't see any pro's trading in their K2600's, Tritons, Fantoms, and Motif's, yet. IMO, they will continue to stay in the domain of the OMB's and Pop Duo's. And oh yeah, they continue to be more popular in Europe than here in the States (witness the paucity of styles popular in this contry). Again, JMHO.

chas

If arranger keyboards did not exist i would not have taken an interest in keyboard playing. I would choose a pax pro any day over even the triton extreme and the same with tyros2/motif. I love arrangers...

???????????????

Chas, here is one...I got rid of my Triton studio 76, and Fantom X6......and kept my G1000...Give me the flexibility of an arranger anyday...An arranger[top models] can replace any workstation synth, but a workststion synth can't replace a top of the line arranger keyboard..

If "PROS" can't accept the arranger as a professional instrument, it is their loss..

In the early days we used a board for left hand bass, another for synth sounds, and yet another for piano...then we used a drum machine...This was all good, but now we can do the same with our arranger...even without the back up loops....as you say...Now what "Pro" can't relate to that...
It is just a case of closed minded...nothing to do with professionalism...

I'm done venting!!!

Fran, that very well may be, but the reality is still pretty much what I stated. BTW, how DO you replace all those boards and drum machines without using the "playback loops"?

chas

No different then we did in the 70's and 80's..

Split your keyboard[helps to have 76 keys]..play bass on the left side of the split...play piano on the right side of split[I can add another split on the G1000, on the right hand side]..
You also add another tone for color[organ , guitar, brass etc] to the right hand side of the split,,,this is controlled by an ev5 expression pedal when you need the tone to be added to the mix..

The only thing that is looped[as the drum machine], are the drums.

Chas , why are you making me type all this? You already know what I am talking about..

Yeah, but it's more fun pulling your chain .

chas


[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 12-09-2005).]

I thought my local instrument dealer was gonna fall off his chair when I suggested that I was considering replacing my Motif ES with a Tyros 2, but when I explained to him what my total setup is, and that I wanted an all in one rig for live OMB play, he understood and agreed that it's probably a good move.

Workstations are fine "all in oners", but there isn't a single sound or feature that I can't replicate and do better with what's in my laptop than I can in my Motif, with the possible exception of the Reed and Wind instrument sounds of the VL150 plug in, which is actually a piece of add on equipment. In any event, my old Windows ME computer houses my SYXG-100 plug in, and the included VL soft module is an exact match in sounds to the VL150 plug in.

FL Studio is many more times powerful and much more flexible than the "Groove Factory" and step sequencer in the ES. Sampling is at best a hassle in the ES, and simple yet better in even a few freeware apps I've tried. The AN150 analog modeling board that I added to the ES has nice analog sounds, but anything more than very basic editing ( ADSR ) requires a computer anyway, and I have at least a dozen softsynths that I like better.

It's not about software vs hardware. Someone who uses specialty hardware modules would probably say the same things. The point for me is that, workstations are the equivalent of jacks of all trades, but masters of none. They'll work fine for today's loop and sample orientated music, but I wonder how many pure keyboardists use them as their main axe.

AJ


[This message has been edited by Bluezplayer (edited 12-09-2005).]